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Post by whdean on Apr 15, 2014 14:39:33 GMT -5
Call this plotting by survey. I wrote myself into a tight spot, more by design than by accident. I’m a plotter, after all, so I knew it was coming. But now I’m on the fence, uncertain how to proceed into the white paper. So I’m soliciting feedback. You can reply as a writer or as a person, I don’t care which. Though I’d prefer if you specified whether it’s what you (think) you’d do or how you’d write it. Feel free to reference another story. I’d appreciate that too.
Anyway, here’s the scenario. A guy falls in love with an artificial intelligence, but he only find out after that she’s artificial (so it’s not like “Her” where the guy knows). He’s not unbalanced in any way, and he’s not some kind of asocial hermit or even just an introvert. He’s more or less normal. The only salient thing might be his injury, which is not life threatening, but it is debilitating.
This is not really like those con artists or hoaxers who pretend to be the woman of some poor sucker’s dreams under the cloak of social media. He doesn’t find out she’s a fraud who’s been playing him. She’s “sincere” (insofar as AI can be): she’s not trying to get anything but love from him. She’s just not real. So that’s the question: How would you react to discovering that your true love is not real? (Or is she real…cue Twilight Zone intro.)
I guess I should note that this isn’t romance, though I assume romance writers have some insight into the scenario or ideas on how to proceed in light of analogous scenarios.
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Post by Deano on Apr 15, 2014 14:42:22 GMT -5
Not sure, but my instinct with regards to the story would be this;
Your "but is she real?" comment is the window to the big twist. Maybe HE is the AI personality and he just doesn't know it. You could plausibly set up the entire story to play to that twist. |
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Post by Suzy on Apr 15, 2014 14:46:18 GMT -5
So... you mean (I'm reversing this so that it's the woman who is experiencing this) that I fall for this wonderful, attractive, kind, interesting man, really loving him, only to discover he's not 'real'? Define 'not real'. A robot? An alien? A figment of the imagination? A ghost?A spirit?
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Post by vrabinec on Apr 15, 2014 14:55:52 GMT -5
Do Robots Dream of Electric Sheep immediately comes to mind. Rachel loves Dekker, and he realizes he loves her back. Of course, in that instance, she's got a hot bod to go with the AI. It's a little tougher to imagine falling for her had she looked like my laptop. If she was an android with all the working parts, I'm hearing wedding bells. If she's a laptop, then I feel a sympathy, but I don't see that attachment going anywhere. I try to placate her and let her down gently, but I want to be able to get the love of my life drunk and roll in the hay. Of course, if I found out she was attracted to me in the same way, I might keep her around like one of those sad stories where the MC tells the hopelessly infatuated "other" that he/she just wants to be friends.
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Post by whdean on Apr 15, 2014 15:35:37 GMT -5
DEAN:
Thanks. That’s one possibility. And as a fan of Golden Age SF, I entertained it. But I don’t know that I could pull it off (especially nowadays) without the reader feeling cheated—like one of those “…and then he woke up” endings that have become a cliché of the genre. I mean, I like The 13th Floor, for example, but a lot of people felt cheated by the ending, and, admittedly, I can see why.
The idea I’ve been toying with, however, is that she isn’t self-aware. In other words, she thinks she’s human and he figures out that she’s not. But that’s been done too, and I’m not sure whether it would get me where I want to go.
So what would you do if, say, you met a woman on-line and you fell in love with her, only to find out that she was an AI program dreamt up by MIT? Maybe the premise is just so beyond our experience that it’s hard to answer.
SUZY:
She’s not human, doesn’t have a physical body, etc. She’s just a program inside a supercomputer that he interacts with through a virtual reality-type interface. Think of them as interacting as avatars inside a game; then he finds out that there’s no human being behind the avatar.
I guess I should mention that I don’t see this ending happily ever after. I just don’t know how or why exactly it falls apart. It’s just difficult to imagine myself in the scenario or anything like it.
FRED:
I just the book and I never even noticed the parallel. Though there are some differences with my premise. Rachel doesn’t actually have empathy, so she can’t be in love. She only mimics empathetic behaviour. Dekker’s attracted to her despite already knowing she’s an android. And then there’s the other twist: Dekker may actually be an android, which would explain his infatuation with her.
I think you’re right that the body thing matters, so let me give another detail. They interact within a virtual reality, like 3D avatars. He can tell that the world is synthetic, but it’s nonetheless very realistic. He can see and touch her, but only inside the system. That complicates things, it seems to me. He can sort of accept the hot android. But rolling in virtual hay isn’t the same as rolling in the real thing.
Maybe there’s just no “natural response” to a situation like this.
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Post by Suzy on Apr 15, 2014 15:43:31 GMT -5
Actually, I think I could. It looks a little like an online relationship where two people meet and start chatting.One of them is real and the other isn't. So... say I was having some kind of online romance with a person I felt very close to and then found out he wasn't real? How would I react?
If I had put in a lot of emotional investment into this relationship, sharing my deepest feelings, I think I would be devastated. And I would want to find out who was behind this unreal person, who had created him/her? I would feel cheated and betrayed, like I had been used. And maybe it would be like a death.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 16:05:29 GMT -5
I had to read He, She, and It by Marge Piercy in university. Human and android love.  you might not be looking to see how other authors did it, but might be worth a read if you are. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Apr 15, 2014 16:17:00 GMT -5
If I had put in a lot of emotional investment into this relationship, sharing my deepest feelings, I think I would be devastated. And I would want to find out who was behind this unreal person, who had created him/her? I would feel cheated and betrayed, like I had been used. And maybe it would be like a death. I think this is how many/most people would react. The only caveat would be that in a futuristic world, where AI is a standard thing, the blow might not be so great because the idea would not seem so bizarre and surprising. This is going to sound like a cop-out, but I think from this point on it becomes a matter of genre. If it's a romance, then they find some way to be together, however odd it might be. If it's straight sci-fi, then maybe there's some delving into the implications of human-AI relationships, with the actual status of their romance at the end being less important. If you're going for a tragedy, then the revelation not only ends the relationship but damages the MC. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 18:34:05 GMT -5
Off the top of my head…
He begs her to find a solution. She has access to a deep audio-visual hypnosis technique and makes him think he's an AI as well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 19:46:41 GMT -5
Or plot twist.... At the end we find out it's actually HIM that's not real. SHE created HIM...and did such a realistic job, even he thinks he's real...and she's not. But she is, and he isn't...wait.
I just confused myself.
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Post by whdean on Apr 15, 2014 20:46:41 GMT -5
SUZY:
Yeah, that’s where I was going with it. He’s revolted and ashamed. But—and this is the tricky part—she’s still there talking to him. She doesn’t disappear into thin air as the fake person would—or she’s not suddenly a man standing in front of him snickering. “She” is still there in front of him and still in love with him.
I hesitate to say this, mostly because I was wondering whether anyone would mention it, but the only parallel I could think of is Crying Game. It must feel something like that, though I don’t know whether I want to quasi-squishy denouement.
As a romance writer, do you think I could just end it with a heart-wrenching speech from him and her pleas echoing in the background? Does that just not work or does it all just hang on execution?
STEVE:
I’ve never heard of that one, so thanks. Based on the description at Amazon, however, reading it might cause me pain.
BECCA:
I agree, more or less. I already know it’s a tragedy. I’m just have trouble imaging it and the details of how it’ll play out. As I mentioned in response to Suzy, it’s gotta feel like the Crying Game revelation.
ANDREW:
I like that idea, actually, it’s a good twist. Though I’ve already decided that he must reject her, somehow and for some fundamental reason. I just don’t know how he does it or why. Nothing quite fits. The climax just comes off flat somehow.
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Post by Becca Mills on Apr 15, 2014 22:44:16 GMT -5
I like Andrew's idea, too! The Crying Game doesn't end tragically, of course.  |
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Post by Deano on Apr 16, 2014 4:27:04 GMT -5
Somebody had to create that avatar, the AI personality had to be programmed by somebody if it were not real. Could the story not hold becoming, perhaps in the final act, the protagonist actually searching for the creator of the love of his life, to see if that person had put their own personality into "her"? That would allow you to both conclude in a satisfying way the virtual aspect of the story, and also the real-world aspects too, even if it does not end happily ever after.
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Post by Suzy on Apr 16, 2014 4:37:26 GMT -5
I had to think about this... The heart wrenching speech from him would work and her pleas in the background. But then, if it was romance, it would have to have some kind of happy ending. So perhaps end it with something wistful, like their love would never die, even if it couldn't continue. It would live in her heart and mind forever and their love would be floating around in cyberspace, perhaps to land on another planet, where their love could be made to work - in another time, another life... He rejects her because, as a man he has this enormous pride and he feels totally betrayed. But her pleas (as mentioned above) are too strong, too emotional. So he has to choose. Cut her off and save himself and his sanity or keep her as some kind of presence. So he chooses to cut her off, push her away, destroy her image. But he will never be able to love anyone again...  |
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Post by Suzy on Apr 16, 2014 4:38:48 GMT -5
Somebody had to create that avatar, the AI personality had to be programmed by somebody if it were not real. Could the story not hold becoming, perhaps in the final act, the protagonist actually searching for the creator of the love of his life, to see if that person had put their own personality into "her"? That would allow you to both conclude in a satisfying way the virtual aspect of the story, and also the real-world aspects too, even if it does not end happily ever after. Clever. Yes, I like that twist. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 7:58:07 GMT -5
Or plot twist.... At the end we find out it's actually HIM that's not real. SHE created HIM...and did such a realistic job, even he thinks he's real...and she's not. But she is, and he isn't...wait. I just confused myself. That's a cool plot twist. Did the Matrix put that idea in your head?  |
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Post by vrabinec on Apr 16, 2014 8:05:48 GMT -5
I like Andrew's idea, too! The Crying Game doesn't end tragically, of course. I dunno, I felt sad for Dil. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 10:28:03 GMT -5
Or plot twist.... At the end we find out it's actually HIM that's not real. SHE created HIM...and did such a realistic job, even he thinks he's real...and she's not. But she is, and he isn't...wait. I just confused myself. That's a cool plot twist. Did the Matrix put that idea in your head? I've never seen the matrix. Is it good? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 10:31:40 GMT -5
I've never seen the matrix. Is it good? Um, that question physically hurt me. I loved the matrix. In fact, talking about it now makes me want to watch them again. I used that series to get through high school ... and now I feel old for how long ago I was in high school. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2014 10:33:36 GMT -5
It's a series?! I LOVE series. I don't watch TV (except The Walking Dead), but sometimes I do a binge Netflix Marathon. Is it on NetFlix, Steve?
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you might not be looking to see how other authors did it, but might be worth a read if you are. 
