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Post by vrabinec on Jul 12, 2015 21:17:19 GMT -5
I forgot what a fucking pain in the ass this is. Pulling out the fucking etymology dictionary every other fucking word. Fuck. Fuck Fuck. And when it's not there, you go back ton the computer. All I wanted was for the damn characters to eat some minestrone soup. Here I am, looking it up to make sure it wasn't invented in the 1950's by Campbell's. I don't think so, but I gotta check. Man, oh man. Yeah, this is the last historical...unless it sells well.
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Post by Becca Mills on Jul 12, 2015 22:11:27 GMT -5
Heh.  |
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Post by scdaffron on Jul 13, 2015 18:51:04 GMT -5
Note to self: Don't switch genres to Historical Fiction.
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Post by Daniel on Jul 14, 2015 8:32:21 GMT -5
I can relate. My western fantasy did the same thing to me. I should have seen it coming, but I underestimated the scope of work by orders of magnitude.
In addition to developing the fantasy elements (magic system, races, and creatures), I wanted the overall technology level to approximate the Old West in 1895. I spent many hours researching steam trains, hard-rock mining techniques, western lingo, clothing, SE Arizona geography, Baltimore at the turn of the century (where my MC came from), history of the US Marshal Service, development of the Arizona Territory, metaphysical properties of various minerals, and more. It was fascinating, but time consuming.
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Post by ameliasmith on Jul 14, 2015 12:38:26 GMT -5
I'm going to do some kind of historical after I wrap up this fantasy series. Thanks for reminding me of the joys of research.
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Post by cbedwards on Jul 17, 2015 21:20:10 GMT -5
Write in like the 8th century. There's not a lot of historical info to get wrong. You can make up a whole lot of stuff.
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Post by Daniel on Jul 18, 2015 8:48:55 GMT -5
I have an interest in writing a pirate book, but the idea of deep research into that period like I had to do with the Old West makes me shudder. I'm currently reading Michael Crichton's Pirate Latitudes, and I can tell he did a lot of background work. Now, if I could travel to those Caribbean locations for the research, I'd be all over it.  Yesterday, I had an epiphany. I could work a sailing adventure into one of my Vaetra books. I already have an established fantasy story world, so I'd be able to research historical sailing technology without being restricted to a specific period. I've found that the hard part of historical research is not answering questions like, "How does a sailing ship work?" It's answering questions like, "Was grape shot used in the year 1661?" |
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Post by lou on Jul 18, 2015 10:18:22 GMT -5
I hear you.
I have one novel (needs to be revised/edited, tho) set in 1898. Thank heavens for local newspapers, which helped a good deal.
But I tried to write one set a hundred years earlier, in Germany (of all places), and I finally gave it up. I could look up if shoes were buttoned or not, and I had all the names of the possible horse-drawn conveyances, but what I never could figure out was, did people of that class, taking such a conveyance, notice the horses? Did they ever pet one on the nose after a nice ride? Did they speak to a hired driver? All these tiny bits that I felt I needed to know to see the scene and I could never quite dig out. I read diaries, I read novels written then...but people don't often mention quotidian details which, back then, everyone would have known.
I keep a diary, and I'm the same. Do I go on for a paragraph about my attitude toward disposable razors or the guy at the tire store? Really, I don't, and if someone was trying to fill in the world around me from my diary, they'd only see .005% or so of it. (and hear a lot of kvetching, but that's another story...)
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Post by carlos on Jul 18, 2015 13:33:39 GMT -5
I kept a diary for awhile--and tried to be accurate, and yet there is nothing in it of general interest, and even the stuff of personal interest has a kind of 'edited' quality--as if I were concerned about being too revealing (when, in fact, there was nothing to reveal.) I suspect that great diarists are fiction writers, not so much because they 'make stuff up' but because they see daily events as 'stories', whereas I see them as more or less random. Narrative is 'natural' to some people, and an acquired skill to others.
This morning I was looking for my dog-tags to give to my grand-daughter (who thinks dog-tags are cool) and in the process threw out thirty 3.5 inch disks. No idea what was on them--possibly something amazing. We'll never know.
It reminds me of a passage in The Alexandria Quartet, where Darley has retreated to Greek island, taking with him the little girl born to his deceased mistress. He intends to use his notes and diaries to write a 'true history' of their loves in Alexandria--but the little girl draws pictures on his notes--and some are lost, and others used for shopping lists, etc. so that the randomness of his observations is matched by the randomness of this natural 'editorial process'--and what comes out is not a 'true history' at all, but (luckily for the reader) a marvelous 'work of art'--i.e., something artificial.
ETA: Ha ha. That was supposed to be 'lives in Alexandria' -- but it came out as 'loves' -- another example of randomness being more accurate than intention.
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Post by lindymoone on Jul 18, 2015 14:32:48 GMT -5
The good news is: "fuck" is actually a pretty old word.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 9:01:43 GMT -5
The worst part isn't making sure words and items existed in a time period, it's making sure you use them properly. Quilting was known in the 13th century but used almost entirely for making padding to go under chainmail. Earliest known quilted blanket was 14th century. Tomatoes were introduce to Europe in the 1500's but in Northern Europe they thought it was poisonous so it was used mostly as a decorative plant for quite some time. (between the tomato being in the nightshade family and much of the flatware being pewter which interacted badly with the acids in tomatoes it was only eaten by the desperate and poor until the 1800's)
Cursing has also given me a bit of a headache. While many of the words existed, most folks preferred religious blasphemy to anatomical references when it came to cursing for a long time. There are some books on the subject I'm looking to get but right now I can't justify tossing money at something interesting but not technically necessary.
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Post by Becca Mills on Jul 23, 2015 9:39:58 GMT -5
I can relate. My western fantasy did the same thing to me. I should have seen it coming, but I underestimated the scope of work by orders of magnitude. In addition to developing the fantasy elements (magic system, races, and creatures), I wanted the overall technology level to approximate the Old West in 1895. I spent many hours researching steam trains, hard-rock mining techniques, western lingo, clothing, SE Arizona geography, Baltimore at the turn of the century (where my MC came from), history of the US Marshal Service, development of the Arizona Territory, metaphysical properties of various minerals, and more. It was fascinating, but time consuming. Can't wait to read this! |
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Post by vrabinec on Jul 23, 2015 9:57:54 GMT -5
The worst part isn't making sure words and items existed in a time period, it's making sure you use them properly. Quilting was known in the 13th century but used almost entirely for making padding to go under chainmail. Earliest known quilted blanket was 14th century. Tomatoes were introduce to Europe in the 1500's but in Northern Europe they thought it was poisonous so it was used mostly as a decorative plant for quite some time. (between the tomato being in the nightshade family and much of the flatware being pewter which interacted badly with the acids in tomatoes it was only eaten by the desperate and poor until the 1800's) Cursing has also given me a bit of a headache. While many of the words existed, most folks preferred religious blasphemy to anatomical references when it came to cursing for a long time. There are some books on the subject I'm looking to get but right now I can't justify tossing money at something interesting but not technically necessary. Fuck, Aimless. I hadn't even thought of that. Usually, I go to the ety dictionary and just look to see if the word was in use. Well, I'll start reading them now, but I'm not going back and double-checking all the ones I've done. It would take me a year just to do that. |
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Post by Daniel on Jul 23, 2015 12:44:58 GMT -5
The worst part isn't making sure words and items existed in a time period, it's making sure you use them properly. Yes! A lot of historical western lingo is still in use, so I'm familiar with it, but it got confusing when I started looking into mining terms. A definition doesn't necessarily tell you how the word is typically used in conversation, or more importantly, when it is most likely to be used in preference to some other term. For that, I had to find old gazettes and journals from the period. For example, spending a half-hour reading a technical manual on blasting techniques and safely capping a stick of dynamite really gives you a feel for the way blasting terms are used. As a bonus, Homeland Security should be showing up on my doorstep at any moment now.  |
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Post by vrabinec on Jul 23, 2015 13:10:15 GMT -5
As a bonus, Homeland Security should be showing up on my doorstep at any moment now. How was your trip to Somalia? Oh, that's right, we're not supposed to talk about that. |
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Post by Daniel on Jul 23, 2015 13:17:07 GMT -5
As a bonus, Homeland Security should be showing up on my doorstep at any moment now. How was your trip to Somalia? Oh, that's right, we're not supposed to talk about that. I've never been to Somalia. At least, not that I recall. |
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Post by whdean on Jul 23, 2015 14:02:02 GMT -5
The worst part isn't making sure words and items existed in a time period, it's making sure you use them properly. Quilting was known in the 13th century but used almost entirely for making padding to go under chainmail. Earliest known quilted blanket was 14th century. Tomatoes were introduce to Europe in the 1500's but in Northern Europe they thought it was poisonous so it was used mostly as a decorative plant for quite some time. (between the tomato being in the nightshade family and much of the flatware being pewter which interacted badly with the acids in tomatoes it was only eaten by the desperate and poor until the 1800's) Cursing has also given me a bit of a headache. While many of the words existed, most folks preferred religious blasphemy to anatomical references when it came to cursing for a long time. There are some books on the subject I'm looking to get but right now I can't justify tossing money at something interesting but not technically necessary. Very important point. "Beer" used to mean fermented beverage until--I think--the nineteenth century. "Corn" was used for centuries as a generic word for "grain" until it came to refer exclusively to maize cultivars we know today. This one throws people because they see references to "corn" in very old texts. Yeah, you can fall into anachronism fairly quickly. ETA: Potatoes also belong to the nightshade family, which is what held back their cultivation for a long time. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Jul 23, 2015 14:05:33 GMT -5
On the plus side (being optimistic, here), if you're not able to figure something out through your research, how likely is it that your readers will catch you out because they know more than you do?
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Post by whdean on Jul 23, 2015 14:06:35 GMT -5
On the plus side (being optimistic, here), if you're not able to figure something out through your research, how likely is it that your readers will catch you out because they know more than you do? You'd be surprised. Historical fiction fans also tend to be history buffs. They know their shit and they will shit on your head in reviews if you get something wrong. I have seen it happen. ETA: This fact alone would make me leery of stepping into the historical fiction genre. Even writing about the ancient world, which I know well enough, would make me nervous. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Jul 23, 2015 14:16:12 GMT -5
On the plus side (being optimistic, here), if you're not able to figure something out through your research, how likely is it that your readers will catch you out because they know more than you do? You'd be surprised. Historical fiction fans also tend to be history buffs. They know their shit and they will shit on your head in reviews if you get something wrong. I have seen it happen. ETA: This fact alone would make me leery of stepping into the historical fiction genre. Even writing about the ancient world, which I know well enough, would make me nervous. But stuff like what lou was talking about (did people bother interacting with their horses when horses = car engines?) ... surely if she can't find the answer to that, most readers won't know either. That seems like a different kind of knowledge, with more leeway, than the exact way a Roman legionnaire worn his gladiuswhatevermajigger, which I'm sure people out there do indeed know, so you have to also. |
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