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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 14:38:36 GMT -5
Yeah, but, like others have said, I prefer remembered sadness and preferably happening to other fictional people.  But if you have never experienced sadness, could you write about it convincingly? You can only remember something which you have experienced.  Unless you're stark raving crazy. Which I am, but that's not the point. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 15:01:16 GMT -5
But if you have never experienced sadness, could you write about it convincingly? You can only remember something which you have experienced. Unless you're stark raving crazy. Which I am, but that's not the point. I remember that about you. |
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Post by vrabinec on Apr 28, 2014 15:03:55 GMT -5
Yeah, but, like others have said, I prefer remembered sadness and preferably happening to other fictional people. But if you have never experienced sadness, could you write about it convincingly? I would guess everybody has experienced sadness. The levels may vary, but sorrow is pretty universal. I think a focused sadness might help. Meaning, if you're writing a love story, and you can bring up memories of being jilted by a first love, that can definitely help. If you're writing a wartime story and can recall the sorrow of losing a father in some war as a child, it can help paint the characters. But cross those two over, and I'm not sure it helps much. Recalling the loss of a father isn't gonna help that much with the sorrow of a character getting rejected, and vice versa. |
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Post by Daniel on Apr 28, 2014 15:19:26 GMT -5
If I'm sad, my writing is only better when I'm writing about sad things. Pretty much the only time I write poetry (and I use that term loosely) is when I'm ultra sad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 15:37:11 GMT -5
But if you have never experienced sadness, could you write about it convincingly? I would guess everybody has experienced sadness. The levels may vary, but sorrow is pretty universal. I think a focused sadness might help. Meaning, if you're writing a love story, and you can bring up memories of being jilted by a first love, that can definitely help. If you're writing a wartime story and can recall the sorrow of losing a father in some war as a child, it can help paint the characters. But cross those two over, and I'm not sure it helps much. Recalling the loss of a father isn't gonna help that much with the sorrow of a character getting rejected, and vice versa. I don't think that's necessarily true. Emotions can be translated from one situation to another. You don't need to have your son killed before your very eyes to be able to write a scene about it. |
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Post by vrabinec on Apr 28, 2014 15:43:46 GMT -5
I would guess everybody has experienced sadness. The levels may vary, but sorrow is pretty universal. I think a focused sadness might help. Meaning, if you're writing a love story, and you can bring up memories of being jilted by a first love, that can definitely help. If you're writing a wartime story and can recall the sorrow of losing a father in some war as a child, it can help paint the characters. But cross those two over, and I'm not sure it helps much. Recalling the loss of a father isn't gonna help that much with the sorrow of a character getting rejected, and vice versa. I don't think that's necessarily true. Emotions can be translated from one situation to another. You don't need to have your son killed before your very eyes to be able to write a scene about it. No, but being jilted has a "sweet sorrow" feel to it. Seeing your son killed wouldn't be sweet in any way. They have different flavors. Yeah, there's sorrow, but I don't think it's the same, and I imagine it elicits different writing. I can try to dig deep and imagine such a tragedy, but my girls are alive and well. I doubt my imagination could hit the levels of sorrow losing one of them would take me to. Thing is, I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to depict that deepest of sorrows. I'm not sure a reader wants to go there. I think a reader would be fine just getting taken to the shallower sorrow. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 15:48:30 GMT -5
I don't think that's necessarily true. Emotions can be translated from one situation to another. You don't need to have your son killed before your very eyes to be able to write a scene about it. No, but being jilted has a "sweet sorrow" feel to it. Seeing your son killed wouldn't be sweet in any way. They have different flavors. Yeah, there's sorrow, but I don't think it's the same, and I imagine it elicits different writing. I can try to dig deep and imagine such a tragedy, but my girls are alive and well. I doubt my imagination could hit the levels of sorrow losing one of them would take me to. Thing is, I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to depict that deepest of sorrows. I'm not sure a reader wants to go there. I think a reader would be fine just getting taken to the shallower sorrow. Depends on what kind of books you want to write. Some of us feel that if readers don't want to go there, you need to kick them there. Then dry their tears. |
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Post by vrabinec on Apr 28, 2014 15:50:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I just consider some things off limits. Things like that, and maybe the mind of a pedophile, serial killer, that sort of stuff. I know some people might read that, but I don't want to take them there. And you might be right, it might just be that I don't want to go there myself.
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Post by Daniel on Apr 28, 2014 15:55:40 GMT -5
...it might just be that I don't want to go there myself. That pretty much sums it up for me. Thar be diverse dungeons of the mind in which I care not to dwell. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 16:06:23 GMT -5
...it might just be that I don't want to go there myself. That pretty much sums it up for me. Thar be diverse dungeons of the mind in which I care not to dwell. I'm curious. Nobody ever wondered what made Hitler do the things he did? There is this childish explanation that he was just "evil." Which explains nothing. Now, the problem is, how are you going to recognize a new Hitler before he can come to power? Doesn't that take delving into the darker regions of the mind? Or are you afraid to meet yourself there? If I may quote myself (and a lot of others): www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/inner-demons |
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Post by Becca Mills on Apr 28, 2014 16:26:29 GMT -5
That pretty much sums it up for me. Thar be diverse dungeons of the mind in which I care not to dwell. I'm curious. Nobody ever wondered what made Hitler do the things he did? There is this childish explanation that he was just "evil." Which explains nothing. Now, the problem is, how are you going to recognize a new Hitler before he can come to power? Doesn't that take delving into the darker regions of the mind? Or are you afraid to meet yourself there? If I may quote myself (and a lot of others): www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/inner-demonsI think we do go there -- the thoughtful among us, anyway. Hitler's been analyzed to death. Plenty of ink has been spent on even more enigmatic figures, such as Adam Lanza. Opening up the newspaper (or electronic equivalent) sends you to these "dungeons of the mind" on a daily basis. It does me, at any rate. But that doesn't mean I want to go there in my pleasure readings. Brr ... my mind ends up there enough in day-to-day life. Just in the last few months, I've read a couple articles so horrifically sad that my mind will likely be returning to them for years in unguarded moments. My empathy muscles are pretty well developed; I don't actively seek workouts for them anymore. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 16:41:58 GMT -5
I'm curious. Nobody ever wondered what made Hitler do the things he did? There is this childish explanation that he was just "evil." Which explains nothing. Now, the problem is, how are you going to recognize a new Hitler before he can come to power? Doesn't that take delving into the darker regions of the mind? Or are you afraid to meet yourself there? If I may quote myself (and a lot of others): www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/inner-demonsI think we do go there -- the thoughtful among us, anyway. Hitler's been analyzed to death. Plenty of ink has been spent on even more enigmatic figures, such as Adam Lanza. Opening up the newspaper (or electronic equivalent) sends you to these "dungeons of the mind" on a daily basis. It does me, at any rate. But that doesn't mean I want to go there in my pleasure readings. Brr ... my mind ends up there enough in day-to-day life. Just in the last few months, I've read a couple articles so horrifically sad that my mind will likely be returning to them for years in unguarded moments. My empathy muscles are pretty well developed; I don't actively seek workouts for them anymore. That's why there are so many different writers and readers. That's why the "dry their tears" part is so important. And yes, if you only want to paint in bright colors, why not? More power to you. I often — not always — need the chiaroscuro. It brings relief to a book. Often the dark parts make the light ones all the more brighter. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 17:17:33 GMT -5
I'm finding this difference of opinion very intriguing, especially since it seems to be taking place among some of the spec writers in the group. In my view, sci-fi and fantasy often specialize in exploring the depths of the human heart, and that material can get pretty dark. So my question is, are we drawing the line between darkness that cuts too close to the harshest realities of our actual world?
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Post by scdaffron on Apr 28, 2014 19:22:40 GMT -5
In my case, the answer is definitely no. When I'm really sad, I can barely even think, much less write. I wrote a blog post about that a few years ago actually ( How to Write When Life Gets in the Way). At the time, I was very unhappy and had a lot of deadlines. It sucked. At the time, I was doing a lot of nonfiction writing. I think it would have been even worse if I'd been writing fiction then  |
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Post by Daniel on Apr 28, 2014 19:35:29 GMT -5
For my part, there is no difference of opinion, merely a difference of preference.
Many writers delve into the darkest corners of human psyche and many readers want to be taken there. That writer is not me, and those readers are not my audience. I'm not exactly a butterflies and rainbows writer either, but I see a big difference between suspense and psychological terror.
Like Becca, I've learned to protect my psyche from imagery that exceeds a certain threshold. I saw a video a while back on Facebook that showed an SUV on an icy road lose traction and slide sideways into an oncoming semi. The sequence was horrific, and I wish I had never seen it. Some things you can't un-see.
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Post by Becca Mills on Apr 28, 2014 20:09:37 GMT -5
For my part, there is no difference of opinion, merely a difference of preference. Many writers delve into the darkest corners of human psyche and many readers want to be taken there. That writer is not me, and those readers are not my audience. I'm not exactly a butterflies and rainbows writer either, but I see a big difference between suspense and psychological terror. Like Becca, I've learned to protect my psyche from imagery that exceeds a certain threshold. I saw a video a while back on Facebook that showed an SUV on an icy road lose traction and slide sideways into an oncoming semi. The sequence was horrific, and I wish I had never seen it. Some things you can't un-see. Yeah, exactly. And some sentences you can't unhear. I don't mind having dark stuff in a book, either as a reader or a writer, but I'm not interested in reading tragedies. God, I got duped into reading Atonement a few years ago ... it's very true, but it's the awful kind of truth. I was so pissed at myself for reading it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 20:14:50 GMT -5
For my part, there is no difference of opinion, merely a difference of preference. Many writers delve into the darkest corners of human psyche and many readers want to be taken there. That writer is not me, and those readers are not my audience. I'm not exactly a butterflies and rainbows writer either, but I see a big difference between suspense and psychological terror. Like Becca, I've learned to protect my psyche from imagery that exceeds a certain threshold. I saw a video a while back on Facebook that showed an SUV on an icy road lose traction and slide sideways into an oncoming semi. The sequence was horrific, and I wish I had never seen it. Some things you can't un-see. Yeah, exactly. And some sentences you can't unhear. I don't mind having dark stuff in a book, either as a reader or a writer, but I'm not interested in reading tragedies. God, I got duped into reading Atonement a few years ago ... it's very true, but it's the awful kind of truth. I was so pissed at myself for reading it. Ah, okay, now I understand what you're saying. I feel the same way. I don't mind plumbing the darkness as long as I don't have to live through something horrific that will haunt me forever. I remember starting to read a crime thriller many years in which a child was kidnapped and killed, and I just stopped reading the book. It was not particularly graphic, but it was just so exploitative and meaningless. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Apr 28, 2014 20:15:54 GMT -5
Yeah, exactly. And some sentences you can't unhear. I don't mind having dark stuff in a book, either as a reader or a writer, but I'm not interested in reading tragedies. God, I got duped into reading Atonement a few years ago ... it's very true, but it's the awful kind of truth. I was so pissed at myself for reading it. Ah, okay, now I understand what you're saying. I feel the same way. I don't mind plumbing the darkness as long as I don't have to live through something horrific that will haunt me forever. I remember starting to read a crime thriller many years in which a child was kidnapped and killed, and I just stopped reading the book. It was not particularly graphic, but it was just so exploitative and meaningless. Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'd probably stop reading, too. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 20:21:54 GMT -5
But if you have never experienced sadness, could you write about it convincingly? I would guess everybody has experienced sadness. The levels may vary, but sorrow is pretty universal. I think a focused sadness might help. Meaning, if you're writing a love story, and you can bring up memories of being jilted by a first love, that can definitely help. If you're writing a wartime story and can recall the sorrow of losing a father in some war as a child, it can help paint the characters. But cross those two over, and I'm not sure it helps much. Recalling the loss of a father isn't gonna help that much with the sorrow of a character getting rejected, and vice versa. Wow, Fred. You're a lot deeper than I thought. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2014 20:29:16 GMT -5
I would guess everybody has experienced sadness. The levels may vary, but sorrow is pretty universal. I think a focused sadness might help. Meaning, if you're writing a love story, and you can bring up memories of being jilted by a first love, that can definitely help. If you're writing a wartime story and can recall the sorrow of losing a father in some war as a child, it can help paint the characters. But cross those two over, and I'm not sure it helps much. Recalling the loss of a father isn't gonna help that much with the sorrow of a character getting rejected, and vice versa. Wow, Fred. You're a lot deeper than I thought. This is really going to help flesh out those characters we're basing on him. |
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