Dialogue Tags and Redundancy

[Deleted]

So, I was reading an article and one of the suggestions was to remove most dialogue tags and use only 's/he said' or 's/he asked' when they were required for clarification as to which person was speaking.

I can see some merit in this but then again I have issues with redundancy. I hate using the same words or phrases over and over.... there are so many more interesting options that could be used and I would think a variety of sparingly used tags would be preferable to the same two when required.

Do you agree with the advice given or prefer variety?

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2014 6:33:03 GMT -5 @aimless said:

So, I was reading an article and one of the suggestions was to remove most dialogue tags and use only 's/he said' or 's/he asked' when they were required for clarification as to which person was speaking.

I can see some merit in this but then again I have issues with redundancy. I hate using the same words or phrases over and over.... there are so many more interesting options that could be used and I would think a variety of sparingly used tags would be preferable to the same two when required.

Do you agree with the advice given or prefer variety?

"Do as you like," I say.

The prevalent theory of the proponents is that "say" is an invisible word, much like "the" and "a."

I just use what feels natural to me, which often is using no dialog tags at all when it's obvious who's speaking.

Sometimes I use fake tags (I'm sure real writers have a technical term for this).

"I'm done here." John turned around and walked away.

Sometimes I use stronger verbs than "said," like "shouted," but I try to use them sparingly. I don't want my characters to appear suffering from ADHD and being on speed at the same time.

But don't take me seriously. I've been known to use adverbs.

"I think someone's at the door," he said softly.

No, he didn't whisper. He just spoke. But softly.

[Rinelle Grey]

Apr 18, 2014 7:11:46 GMT -5 @andrew said:

I think they're called action tags.

I use dialogue tags fairly frequently still, as I just find the improve the flow of the sentence. I use action tags a lot. I use people's names too often!

I do use different dialogue tags sometimes, if they really fit with the moment, but I do think they can be overdone. If everyone is snarling and whispering and breathing their words, it starts to get distracting.

[vrabinec]

You wanna use some action tags, otherwise you get "talking heads" syndrome where the visual disappears and the reader only gets a radio version of the conversation. But RARELY is it important what's said in the dialogue tag. The conversation should carry almost all of the emotion. If it doesn't then you've got bigger problems than repetitive dialogue tags.

[Deleted]

Yeah, action tags are usually more fun.

And I really don't get the anti-adverb thing. I like adverbs! I don't think I use them all that often but eliminating them entirely just seems like an overreaction based on an opinion rather than reasonable advice. That was also mentioned in the article with very little reason given.

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2014 7:37:20 GMT -5 @aimless said:

Yeah, action tags are usually more fun.

And I really don't get the anti-adverb thing. I like adverbs! I don't think I use them all that often but eliminating them entirely just seems like an overreaction based on an opinion rather than reasonable advice. That was also mentioned in the article with very little reason given.

I think the aversion originated because of the frequent misuse/abuse of adverbs.

I try to check for two things.

1) Is the adverb redundant?

She ran quickly.

2) Is the adverb propping up a weak verb and is a stronger verb available (a.k.a. lazy writing)

He looked closely at the paper. → He examined the paper.

You could also try to check whether the adverb is "telling" instead of "showing." You run the same risks as with using stronger verbs in dialogue tags though.
Take your pick:

"Keep your hands to yourself," she said.
"Keep your hands to yourself," she said angrily.
"Keep your hands to yourself," she said, livid with indignation.
"Keep your hands to yourself," she shouted.
"Keep your hands to yourself." She kneed him in the groin.

[lindymoone]

May I just add that please, please, whatever you do, don't do this:

"I eat popcorn every day," he hissed. (There isn't a single "s" in the sentence, so how's he gonna hiss it?)

[Daniel]

My rule of thumb, in order of preference:

• No tag
• Action tag
• Dialog tag

Sometimes I need a tag to make it clear who is talking. I have a lot of scenes where three or more people are contributing to the conversation. I'll try to use an action tag first, partly because you can make them do triple duty: show who is speaking, deepen characterization, and reveal setting. I use dialog tags as a last resort, not because I don't like them, but because I believe the other options are more effective.

I'm willing to use an adverb if it truly adds something, but 99% of the time I can put the emotional flavor an adverb would deliver into the character's choice of words or an action tag.

I think the important thing is to write deliberately. Understand the rules, but apply them or break them according to the needs of your story.

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2014 8:57:46 GMT -5 Daniel said:

I use dialog tags as a last resort, not because I don't like them, but because I believe the other options are more effective.

Yes, this.

For details on those options, I highly recommend Browne and King's "Self-Editing For Fiction Writers." Either that, or spend 30 years behind an editing desk. 

[Deleted]

I'm in my drafting mode, and I just keep right on going even though I use all of the types of examples given so far. I intend to revisit it in editing mode when I'm looking more closely at redundancy and to make sure that my character isn't hissing or some such action. I'm sure I won't be 100% successful, but this thread reminds me to definitely check my dialogue!

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2014 8:57:46 GMT -5 Daniel said:

My rule of thumb, in order of preference:

• No tag
• Action tag
• Dialog tag

Sometimes I need a tag to make it clear who is talking. I have a lot of scenes where three or more people are contributing to the conversation. I'll try to use an action tag first, partly because you can make them do triple duty: show who is speaking, deepen characterization, and reveal setting. I use dialog tags as a last resort, not because I don't like them, but because I believe the other options are more effective.

I'm willing to use an adverb if it truly adds something, but 99% of the time I can put the emotional flavor an adverb would deliver into the character's choice of words or an action tag.

I think the important thing is to write deliberately. Understand the rules, but apply them or break them according to the needs of your story.

This is pretty much my philosophy as well. I think using everything sparingly is advisable. I use words other than said in very rare instances, but I do use them once in awhile.

What we see as writers is not always what the reader sees. They've done studies where said is not even noticed by the reader most of the time, which can denote the speaker but not stop the flow of the dialogue. It can be a little problematic in audiobooks, though some edit those out. If you want the reader to full stop or slow, then I would use a different tag, and sometimes that can be effective. But even in Andrew's examples, the action tag is far more effective than anything else.

[Deleted]

"hello Jane," I interlocuted longingly.
"hello yourself, pardner," she ejaculated mistily.

There's a wonderful book I plan to re-read called, "It was the best of sentences, it was the worst of sentences." In it, the author talks about "adverbs" and the problems with them--in the hands of writers who have problems with them.

I have a few in my book "Kick" (by John L. Monk), and I even use "intoned" twice as a dialogue tag. Because I think I knew what I was doing on those occasions. I use "adverbs" once or twice too (mistily and longingly, for example). It's ok. Just don't turn all your flowers into corsages, don't put too much salt in your grits, don't put on too much makeup, etc.

In that book, she talks about how it's great to break the rules (if you know them first), and that most rules aren't rules at all, and differentiates style and custom vs. grammar.

I'm sure I didn't clear anything up, but you could do worse than read that book. (not Kick, you can't do worse than reading Kick hehe). Ok, enough false humility, I'm out of here.

[Suzy]

Apr 18, 2014 8:40:28 GMT -5 lindymoone said:

May I just add that please, please, whatever you do, don't do this:

"I eat popcorn every day," he hissed. (There isn't a single "s" in the sentence, so how's he gonna hiss it?)

Very true! It has to be, 'he popped', right?

[Deleted]

I avoid dialogue tags when I can and go with action tags. Otherwise, I try to use "say" or "said."

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2014 11:06:12 GMT -5 @lynnblackmar said:

Apr 18, 2014 8:57:46 GMT -5 Daniel said:

My rule of thumb, in order of preference:

• No tag
• Action tag
• Dialog tag

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

[Becca Mills]

I also do things in Daniel's order (see Jolie's quote^), but I think the vogue for action tags can be carried too far. When I find myself inventing an unnecessary action just to avoid a dialogue tag, I feel silly and go back to "said." And yeah, I try hard not to use anything but "said" or, sometimes, "asked." Very rarely I'll go for "whispered" or "murmured" if it really seems important to get that info across.

[Deleted]

"This is a great thread," LeeBee ruminated thoughtfully.

[Deleted]

"So much has been learned," he mused contentedly.

[Becca Mills]

"I guess it's okay," she mehed half-assedly.

[Deleted]

I write pretty instinctively, just trust my ear, but I've noticed that my use of tags depends on the characters. I wrote one book with a sparky relationship between two bright, highly verbal people. Ended up lots of times with dialogue just fired back and forth, no tags. My latest had a slow-talking, stoical hero. I noticed it had lots more "said"' tags. Slowed everything down to Joe's pace.