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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 24, 2014 23:18:08 GMT -5
Tonight my lesson plan for my first-year students revolves around reading comprehension and retention. They really struggle with effective reading. With a lot of them, they eyes pass over, but there's no lasting grasp of the information. I suspect it's because they're getting the info in a vacuum.
It sort of makes me wonder how well our readers retain what we write. I tend to remember plotted pieces of writing (and films) quite well. I also remember science/medical stuff fairly well. Also political stuff. Other things I forget much more readily -- philosophy and theory, for instance. My husband, on the other hand, remember theory and philosophy brilliantly, but with science/medicine, not so much. If there are things I remember and things I forget, and if others remember and forget different things, then there must be people out there who don't remember fiction well.
So if you go a long time between books in a series, what should you do to remind readers about the previous entry? Nothing?
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Post by cbedwards on Feb 24, 2014 23:36:21 GMT -5
I guess sprinkle it in as backstory.
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Post by vrabinec on Feb 24, 2014 23:45:58 GMT -5
Don't sweat the small stuff. Concentrate on the highlights of the previous book. It was years between the time I read The Hobbit and LOR, and Tolkien nudged the reader here and there about personality and made sure the ring and the trolls got a good mention, but, otherwise, it's not a big deal. I think the info in book 1 probably is never quite as important as the author things as it relates to book 2. Any rules of magic and such, though, should be re-established.
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 24, 2014 23:49:31 GMT -5
Okay, good advice. I *think* I've been doing that ...
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Post by Suzy on Feb 25, 2014 3:01:53 GMT -5
I'm writing #3 in my Hot series and although there is only six months between each release, I still do what CB said, I sprinkle a little of the back stories through each book.
But I think one normally remembers things that interest one, so they probably would remember the main points of the previous story.
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 25, 2014 3:08:48 GMT -5
I hope so, but two years is quite a while ...  |
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Post by Suzy on Feb 25, 2014 3:10:18 GMT -5
Then you might have to remind them...
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 25, 2014 3:23:55 GMT -5
Then you might have to remind them... I've been planting reminders. Dunno. The book also has recent readers, so I hate to overdo it. The oldest readers are probably the least likely to buy the next book. |
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Post by Pru Freda on Feb 25, 2014 3:31:01 GMT -5
You never know, Becca. Those who loved your first book are likely to go back and re-read it before they dive into the second. A lot of people do that, to refresh their memories.
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 25, 2014 10:22:55 GMT -5
You never know, Becca. Those who loved your first book are likely to go back and re-read it before they dive into the second. A lot of people do that, to refresh their memories. Well, that'd be unspeakably cool.  |
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Post by whdean on Feb 25, 2014 12:12:55 GMT -5
Retention requires a retainer. Give them schema to attach things to as they read: characters and their traits, relations with one another, plot points--in short, make the list as long as it has to be and tell them to fill in the blanks as they go.
I know, the horror! the horror! of telling them what to think! But the reality! the reality! is that people need a framework to stick things to or they retain nothing.
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 25, 2014 12:51:47 GMT -5
Retention requires a retainer. Give them schema to attach things to as they read: characters and their traits, relations with one another, plot points--in short, make the list as long as it has to be and tell them to fill in the blanks as they go. I know, the horror! the horror! of telling them what to think! But the reality! the reality! is that people need a framework to stick things to or they retain nothing. Well, yes, but how, exactly? What would this look like, aside from what every novel contains? |
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Post by whdean on Feb 25, 2014 14:21:36 GMT -5
Here are two framing ideas:
1. Potted interpretations of the book. Offer them two or three different and inconsistent interpretations of the book, preferably without much nuance. Tell them the textual bases for these interpretations without too many specifics and tell them the assumptions underlying these interpretations. This will get them paying attention to cues and thinking about assumptions, hopefully their own.
2. Structures, motivations, and affect. I can’t give precise guidance here because I need to know the book their reading. “Novel” covers a lot of terrain. Suffice to say that you’ll need to flesh out the basic structure of the story for them to fill in: the characters, the things they say and do, and why they did what they did. Then there’s affect: Did it move you? If so, how, why, and where?
It really doesn’t matter what you come up with here, because it all serves the pedagogical end of giving them something to look for instead of leaving them to come up with something out of nothing. It’s the difference between saying “Read X” and saying “Read X and tell me whether it’s a story about…and whether so-and-so is good or bad…” If you need a term for it, call it dialectical pedagogy.
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Post by vrabinec on Feb 25, 2014 15:35:02 GMT -5
If you need a term for it, call it dialectical pedagogy. Wow, a blast from the past. We had some fun with DP in one of my child development courses at Pitt. Good stuff. Hadn't thought of it that way, but, yeah, that'll work. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 25, 2014 15:46:30 GMT -5
Here are two framing ideas: 1. Potted interpretations of the book. Offer them two or three different and inconsistent interpretations of the book, preferably without much nuance. Tell them the textual bases for these interpretations without too many specifics and tell them the assumptions underlying these interpretations. This will get them paying attention to cues and thinking about assumptions, hopefully their own. 2. Structures, motivations, and affect. I can’t give precise guidance here because I need to know the book their reading. “Novel” covers a lot of terrain. Suffice to say that you’ll need to flesh out the basic structure of the story for them to fill in: the characters, the things they say and do, and why they did what they did. Then there’s affect: Did it move you? If so, how, why, and where? It really doesn’t matter what you come up with here, because it all serves the pedagogical end of giving them something to look for instead of leaving them to come up with something out of nothing. It’s the difference between saying “Read X” and saying “Read X and tell me whether it’s a story about…and whether so-and-so is good or bad…” If you need a term for it, call it dialectical pedagogy. Oh, you're talking about teaching! Heh, heh ... thought you were talking about my creative writing. No wonder I was confused. Yeah, there are a number of good ways to help students comprehend fiction. But these days the stuff I teach is almost entirely non-fiction. A lot of it is social or natural/physical science. I use reading quizzes to make sure they do the reading, but I'm finding that their comprehension/retention of difficult material is very poor, even if they do the reading. We've been working in class on note-taking techniques. They need a lot of hand-holding. Right now we're looking at quantum mechanics in one of my classes -- in a very basic, non-mathematical way -- and it's just very, very hard for them. |
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Post by vrabinec on Feb 25, 2014 16:01:56 GMT -5
Here are two framing ideas: 1. Potted interpretations of the book. Offer them two or three different and inconsistent interpretations of the book, preferably without much nuance. Tell them the textual bases for these interpretations without too many specifics and tell them the assumptions underlying these interpretations. This will get them paying attention to cues and thinking about assumptions, hopefully their own. 2. Structures, motivations, and affect. I can’t give precise guidance here because I need to know the book their reading. “Novel” covers a lot of terrain. Suffice to say that you’ll need to flesh out the basic structure of the story for them to fill in: the characters, the things they say and do, and why they did what they did. Then there’s affect: Did it move you? If so, how, why, and where? It really doesn’t matter what you come up with here, because it all serves the pedagogical end of giving them something to look for instead of leaving them to come up with something out of nothing. It’s the difference between saying “Read X” and saying “Read X and tell me whether it’s a story about…and whether so-and-so is good or bad…” If you need a term for it, call it dialectical pedagogy. Oh, you're talking about teaching! Heh, heh ... thought you were talking about my creative writing. No wonder I was confused. Yeah, there are a number of good ways to help students comprehend fiction. But these days the stuff I teach is almost entirely non-fiction. A lot of it is social or natural/physical science. I use reading quizzes to make sure they do the reading, but I'm finding that their comprehension/retention of difficult material is very poor, even if they do the reading. We've been working in class on note-taking techniques. They need a lot of hand-holding. Right now we're looking at quantum mechanics in one of my classes -- in a very basic, non-mathematical way -- and it's just very, very hard for them. They probably need to learn techniques on how to be interested enough to remember. That's the problem with a culture that entertains kids every minute of every day on their little I-phones. They're certainly no smarter or dumber than we were, and we learned the stuff. They just have a much bigger list of cool shit to think about, and it crowds out the learnin'. Wow, I sound like an old man. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 25, 2014 16:11:07 GMT -5
Oh, you're talking about teaching! Heh, heh ... thought you were talking about my creative writing. No wonder I was confused. Yeah, there are a number of good ways to help students comprehend fiction. But these days the stuff I teach is almost entirely non-fiction. A lot of it is social or natural/physical science. I use reading quizzes to make sure they do the reading, but I'm finding that their comprehension/retention of difficult material is very poor, even if they do the reading. We've been working in class on note-taking techniques. They need a lot of hand-holding. Right now we're looking at quantum mechanics in one of my classes -- in a very basic, non-mathematical way -- and it's just very, very hard for them. They probably need to learn techniques on how to be interested enough to remember. That's the problem with a culture that entertains kids every minute of every day on their little I-phones. They're certainly no smarter or dumber than we were, and we learned the stuff. They just have a much bigger list of cool shit to think about, and it crowds out the learnin'. Wow, I sound like an old man. Heh, heh. Well, yes, there may be more distractions, now. But there have always been a lot of students who don't excel, especially in required courses. Many of "us" didn't learn the stuff -- we got C's, flunked out, whatever. I try to demonstrate my interest in the material and find exercises that will stimulate them*, but to some extent, they're responsible for their own levels of engagement. They're grownups. *For instance, last night we worked on taking notes on a reading by drawing, rather than using words. Mixing different ways of recording information can aid understanding and retention because you have to really think about the material in order to draw a picture. |
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Post by vrabinec on Feb 25, 2014 16:38:21 GMT -5
My impression of Hamlet:  |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 25, 2014 17:07:29 GMT -5
Looks about right! Red blood, black poison.  |
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Post by Daniel on Feb 25, 2014 18:28:04 GMT -5
Then you might have to remind them... I've been planting reminders. Dunno. The book also has recent readers, so I hate to overdo it. The oldest readers are probably the least likely to buy the next book. I've decided to keep the reminders to a minimum in my third book. I put in several reminders in my second, and got at least one complaint about it. My beta readers and most other readers seemed fine with them, but I realized that most of the series I've read include very few reminders. I wanted the books to stand alone as much as possible, but let's face it; I'm writing a trilogy. It's probably safe to assume that readers have recently read the previous volumes. Jogging their memory is probably more of a distraction than a benefit. P.S. I reserve the right to be completely wrong about this. |
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