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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 10, 2014 12:42:50 GMT -5
A lot of what I do in both revising and editing is delete. I tend to have "too much." Too much explaining. Too much "on the nose" stuff that takes away uncertainty/mystery or resolves it too fast. Too much dialogue -- I haven't kept a character laconic who's supposed to be. Too many non-action/character development scenes gumming up the works. Too many words (plagues of "really" and "very" and "clearly," et al.). My "cuts" file (I tend to save stuff I cut in case I find a use for it) is close to a quarter the length of my manuscript.
Does this happen to you, or are you a "too little" writer -- someone who needs to go back and flesh out a spare draft?
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Post by Suzy on Feb 10, 2014 12:59:48 GMT -5
I think I'm a bit of both.
Too much when it comes to descriptions and feelings-too little when it comes to creating atmosphere around a dialogue. That's in the first draft anyway. So when I go back, I have to slim down descriptions and feelings (like removing thoughts and stuff like-'she felt like this because') And adding beats and surroundings in the dialogue scenes.
I also have to rewrite scenes to add conflict and a certain amount of drama.
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Post by whdean on Feb 10, 2014 13:10:35 GMT -5
I suggest it’s the effect of writing “conversationally.” You’re writing like you’re telling someone the story. Speech, as you know, is a lot wordier than prose. That’s where the thing about adverbs comes from, after all. People use them way more in speech because they’re connected to the body language we use when talking. “I’d absolutely love to see that show!” So if you look at what you've cut, you'll probably find that much of it belongs to speech.
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Post by Suzy on Feb 10, 2014 13:12:20 GMT -5
I suggest it’s the effect of writing “conversationally.” You’re writing like you’re telling someone the story. Speech, as you know, is a lot wordier than prose. That’s where the thing about adverbs comes from, after all. People use them way more in speech because they’re connected to the body language we use when talking. “I’d absolutely love to see that show!” So if you look at what you've cut, you'll probably find that much of it belongs to speech. Good point, WH. I do write very conversationally. Must remember that. |
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Post by vrabinec on Feb 10, 2014 13:40:35 GMT -5
I suggest it’s the effect of writing “conversationally.” You’re writing like you’re telling someone the story. Speech, as you know, is a lot wordier than prose. That’s where the thing about adverbs comes from, after all. People use them way more in speech because they’re connected to the body language we use when talking. “I’d absolutely love to see that show!” So if you look at what you've cut, you'll probably find that much of it belongs to speech. Depends on whether I'm in 3rd or 1st. 3rd comes out a little more distilled, but 1st still has a conversational feel. At least, mine does. Not as much as my conversations do, but it's definitely there. |
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Post by Suzy on Feb 10, 2014 14:05:47 GMT -5
My narrative is too conversational.
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Post by Pru Freda on Feb 10, 2014 14:12:19 GMT -5
If I removed/edited all the conversationally written bits - there'd be no book left!
I'm definitely an underwriter - IYSWIM - and have to add things when I edit, not take them out. I cut to the chase too often, desperate to get the heart of it down, then flounder when it comes to adding more.
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 10, 2014 16:14:36 GMT -5
Interesting variety! WH, you're right about conversationality. I want my first-person narrator to *sound* conversational, but of course I don't want to reproduce actual conversation, especially in the narration. It's unreadable. For instance, I find myself wanting to stick in "like" and "I mean" and "um" far too often, just because real people my narrator's age talk that way.
More than that, though, I'm talking about cutting whole scenes that just shouldn't be there. Like, in the last week I wrote a couple short chapters. Yesterday I went back over them and cut out three whole scenes, and cut half of a fourth. They were getting into information that didn't belong in that part of the book or in that book at all.
Lynda, sometimes it feels like I'm trying to "cut to the chase" when I include these misguided scenes. It's a different way of cutting to the chase, though -- revealing too much.
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Post by Suzy on Feb 10, 2014 16:20:40 GMT -5
I pile it all in in draft one. Revealing way too much. But I need that stuff to get into my brain so that it's there in the background when I cut most of it out and it kind of gets into the story in a more subtle way.
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 10, 2014 16:23:31 GMT -5
I pile it all in in draft one. Revealing way too much. But I need that stuff to get into my brain so that it's there in the background when I cut most of it out and it kind of gets into the story in a more subtle way. Wish I could do that -- it's the healthy way to write Draft 1. Unfortunately, I seem to need to fix things as I go. Shit, I have to get ready to teach! I need one of those "turn off the internet for X amount of time" programs.  |
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Post by Suzy on Feb 10, 2014 16:26:48 GMT -5
I like draft 1. Because you can write and write all kinds of rubbish and know it's okay because it's just draft 1.
Happy teaching, Becca!
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 10, 2014 16:59:17 GMT -5
I like draft 1. Because you can write and write all kinds of rubbish and know it's okay because it's just draft 1. Exactly what I tell my students. It's tried and true advice. I'm a hypocrite.  Thank you! Okay, I'm going now. Really. Bye.  |
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Post by Daniel on Feb 10, 2014 18:22:08 GMT -5
I still seem to be evolving, but I'm mostly a "too little" writer.
With Book One, the first draft finished out at about 65K. The final draft was 75K (+10K/+23%).
With Book Two, the first draft was about 90K and the final was 99K (+9K/+10%).
I don't know if that means I tend to write about 10K words fewer than I need or if dropping from 23% to 10% means I'm learning to "right size" my stories. We'll see what Book Three does to my trend.
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 10, 2014 23:31:26 GMT -5
I still seem to be evolving, but I'm mostly a "too little" writer. With Book One, the first draft finished out at about 65K. The final draft was 75K (+10K/+23%). With Book Two, the first draft was about 90K and the final was 99K (+9K/+10%). I don't know if that means I tend to write about 10K words fewer than I need or if dropping from 23% to 10% means I'm learning to "right size" my stories. We'll see what Book Three does to my trend. Interesting. I definitely add chunks here and there in revision. But mostly I cut or cut and replace with something shorter. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 8:17:39 GMT -5
I'm also a "too little" writer. My first drafts are more like screenplays. I do end up cutting dialogue, but mostly I add in stuff on the second round. However, when I get reviews from both industry pros and leaders, my dialogue is definitely my strong point.I guess it makes sense to center my books around it.
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Post by vrabinec on Feb 11, 2014 8:29:12 GMT -5
More than that, though, I'm talking about cutting whole scenes that just shouldn't be there. Like, in the last week I wrote a couple short chapters. Yesterday I went back over them and cut out three whole scenes, and cut half of a fourth. They were getting into information that didn't belong in that part of the book or in that book at all. . I have the same issue. I'm noticing some chapters that aren't really the scenes that best present the story, but rather are their second cousins. Usually, it's because I didn't know at the time I wrote them, what the story was gonna be yet, and a bunch of stuff happened in subsequent chapters that presents an opportunity to change it to a more pertinent scene which already encompasses some of the tension that was added in later chapters. It makes the book more cohesive. It's a lot of work, but I'm not gonna beat myself up for not knowing what all was gonna happen in the book when I wrote the early chapters. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 11, 2014 10:24:46 GMT -5
More than that, though, I'm talking about cutting whole scenes that just shouldn't be there. Like, in the last week I wrote a couple short chapters. Yesterday I went back over them and cut out three whole scenes, and cut half of a fourth. They were getting into information that didn't belong in that part of the book or in that book at all. . I have the same issue. I'm noticing some chapters that aren't really the scenes that best present the story, but rather are their second cousins. Usually, it's because I didn't know at the time I wrote them, what the story was gonna be yet, and a bunch of stuff happened in subsequent chapters that presents an opportunity to change it to a more pertinent scene which already encompasses some of the tension that was added in later chapters. It makes the book more cohesive. It's a lot of work, but I'm not gonna beat myself up for not knowing what all was gonna happen in the book when I wrote the early chapters. Yep, I go through this a lot. Paying the pantser piper. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 11, 2014 10:25:36 GMT -5
I'm also a "too little" writer. My first drafts are more like screenplays. I do end up cutting dialogue, but mostly I add in stuff on the second round. However, when I get reviews from both industry pros and leaders, my dialogue is definitely my strong point.I guess it makes sense to center my books around it. That's a great strong suit to have. Dialogue is so important, and I think it's a weak area all too often. |
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