|
|
Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Oct 5, 2018 9:50:33 GMT -5
Okay, then it's not just me. I got a lot of bragging about how his "method" is better than anyone else's and then, I'm a good 1/3 through the book and there's no method that I can see. I've already started skimming because it's a bunch of blahdy blah to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by scdaffron on Oct 5, 2018 10:30:54 GMT -5
It's so not just you. I found myself increasingly irritated. I'd like to find the worksheets online somewhere. Because the idea of coming up with verbs is good and worth adding to my character development arsenal, but the amount of blather in the book is just annoying.
Right now, I'm reading a romantic suspense called Secret Sisters by Jayne Ann Krentz that I got at the library book sale. So far it's pretty good.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daniel on Oct 5, 2018 10:55:41 GMT -5
In it's defense, Verbalize may be an excellent study in how to take a fairly simple concept and fluff it up into an entire book. There are probably a few takeaways for nonfiction writers if they can avoid going to the extremes provided by the example.
|
|
|
|
Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Oct 5, 2018 13:24:13 GMT -5
In it's defense, Verbalize may be an excellent study in how to take a fairly simple concept and fluff it up into an entire book. There are probably a few takeaways for nonfiction writers if they can avoid going to the extremes provided by the example. I literally snorted when I read this.
Now, as much as he pooh poohed certain approaches to fiction, I think Story Genius had way more actionable content and as I read it, I realized it was the approach to plotting I'd used for my first series. Not that I knew I was doing that at the time. I was just writing in a way that felt organic to me. I wasn't using someone's outline or thinking about what goes into this act or that act. I just knew I'd read countless books and this was how the ones I enjoyed the most were put together.
As far as Verbalize goes, I'd probably enjoy hearing him speak, but I can't say I'm getting anything out of this book at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Oct 5, 2018 13:27:14 GMT -5
It's so not just you. I found myself increasingly irritated. I'd like to find the worksheets online somewhere. Because the idea of coming up with verbs is good and worth adding to my character development arsenal, but the amount of blather in the book is just annoying. Right now, I'm reading a romantic suspense called Secret Sisters by Jayne Ann Krentz that I got at the library book sale. So far it's pretty good. I have several Jayne Ann Krentz books and she also writes sci-fi romance under a pen name. Jayne Castle. I enjoyed her work a lot, just haven't read any of it lately.
|
|
|
|
Post by kateelizabeth on Oct 5, 2018 14:06:13 GMT -5
Have you also tried JAK's historical romances under Amanda Quick? I enjoy reading all of her pen names' books.
|
|
|
|
Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Oct 5, 2018 15:14:58 GMT -5
No, I haven't read those.  |
|
|
|
Post by Daniel on Oct 5, 2018 16:16:05 GMT -5
I'm with you. I won't read anything that I know has a tragic ending. If I'm reading along and the hero goes from one horrible experience to another without ever winning, I jump to the end and see if all the suffering is worth it. (It rarely is.) Unfortunately, fantasy (and sci-fi for that matter) is rife with stories that leave you exhausted and shocked at the horrible cost of the hero's final victory. Sure, she won, but at what cost? One of the reasons I started writing fantasy is because I grew weary of the grimdark and post-apocalyptic novels that had taken over the genre. Story needs drama, but that doesn't mean every story has to be steeped in angst, sorrow, and pain to be interesting. It's nice to get a glimpse of the positive human emotions once in a while, too.
Which would you say are some of the worst offenders? Morbidly curious--I seem to have mostly avoided stories like this so far. Or perhaps my tolerance for masochism is just unusually high  I had to think about how to respond to this question. I'll stick to the big trad-published examples since I met a few of the worst offenders online at various forums, and you just never know where those folks might turn up.  I'm not sure what started the trend into darkness, not that horror hasn't always been a close cousin to sci-fi and fantasy. But some of the CKFs* of recent decades were dark to the point where they burned me out on reading fantasy for a while. My wife could always tell when I was reading a Sword of Truth book because I became silent and morose. Some of the torture scenes in the early books were literally nauseating. Before that, I stopped reading the Wheel of Time series at Book 10 (which was supposed to be the last) because I got tired of the Endless Travails of Rand. It started to seem like most fantasy became about saving the entire universe from some unspeakable evil that comes so close to winning that it feels like an "everybody dies" ending. Or the story spends an inordinate time making the hero so utterly miserable you have to wonder why s/he doesn't just jump off a bridge or something. That's the "hero never gets a break" pattern. I don't actually blame fantasy writers for the grimdark trend. The trend into darkness has affected virtually every category, spawning a ton of "[pick-a-base-genre] suspense" where angst rules. Perhaps I'm looking at things backwards, but I tend to lay the blame at the feet some of the recent writing gurus, who are, by and large, thriller writers (e.g. Randy Ingermanson, James Scott Bell, Larry Brooks).
Don't get me wrong. I like a good thriller when I'm in a mood for a thriller. On the other hand, I don't appreciate having everything turned into a thriller. The theory seems to be that we all need to write thrillers because that's the only way to keep the audience engaged. I beg to differ. Different readers like different paces and different levels of complexity and description. I write what has been called a "leisurely beginning" because that's what I like to read. (Becca is probably sorry she ever said that about my stories, but I repeat it regularly because I actually see it as a positive feature of my writing.) I like to be transported into the story world and get to know something about the main character before I'm faced with the inciting incident.
What does all this thriller stuff have to do with dark fantasy? Everything. Most dark fantasy incorporates the "constant escalating setbacks" of thrillers, but we aren't talking about car chases here, we're talking about monsters, demons, and evil magic. I think a paranormal milieu offers a stronger potential for psychological distress than classic thrillers set in the real world. Grimdark can be truly grim.
Personally, I prefer fantasy where the hero comes out ahead once in a while and where the charm of the story world is a big part of what makes the tale fascinating. Mix in a little humor, and you have me as a fan.
ETA: I haven't read them because of their reputation, but I'm sure the Game of Thrones would also be considered grimdark. I was able to watch about three episodes of the TV series before giving up.
* ETA: Non-fantasy readers may not be familiar with this term. CKF = Chihuahua Killing Fantasy: a fantasy book so thick you have to be careful not to drop it on a chihuahua.
|
|
|
|
Post by Becca Mills on Oct 5, 2018 17:04:14 GMT -5
Becca, I really liked The House With a Clock in Its Walls, but I may have enjoyed it more as a child. It's the beginning of a 12-book series, I believe. Someone online on one of the boards (I think) said that the movie was nothing like the book (big surprise). Twelve books! Wow. Well, it'll keep the widgets going for a while if they like it. |
|
|
|
Post by Becca Mills on Oct 5, 2018 17:08:54 GMT -5
I was behind on the In Death books by Nora Roberts (J.D. Robb) so I am reading one of those--Secrets In Death, I think. It's number 45 of the series. People say she's not writing them herself anymore and hasn't been since 5 or so books back. I can tell you that if she's writing these, her heart is not in it and she should stop. This does not feel like her writing at all. First time I've ever been tempted to DNF one of these. I'm also reading Hook, Line, and Murder by Tegan Maher and Verbalize (a writing craft book) by Damon Suede. Next on deck is the same set of Dresden shorts Becca's reading. I hope you like the Butcher collections, Miss Terri Novelle. I liked it and thought a few of the stories were very strong indeed. Now if he'd just get another novel out ...  |
|
|
|
Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Oct 5, 2018 19:17:22 GMT -5
Agreed. I mean, I like the other series well enough, and shorts are good if that's all there is, but a new Dresden NEEDS to come out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Becca Mills on Oct 6, 2018 0:29:07 GMT -5
Agreed. I mean, I like the other series well enough, and shorts are good if that's all there is, but a new Dresden NEEDS to come out. Mmmm-hmm. I will admit to having a huge Dresden crush.  |
|
|
|
Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Oct 6, 2018 7:52:04 GMT -5
Oh me too. Did you watch the TV series?
|
|
|
|
Post by Daniel on Oct 6, 2018 9:54:06 GMT -5
I didn't have a crush, but I loved the books and thought Paul Blackthorne was an excellent Dresden on the TV series. I liked it enough to buy it, and we re-watch that one season about once a year. It ended too quickly, not unlike Firefly, Wonderfalls, and Brisco County Junior.
|
|
|
|
Post by kateelizabeth on Oct 6, 2018 12:22:03 GMT -5
I loved Brisco County Junior. My husband bought the DVD series for us a couple of years ago. Bruce Campbell is one of my favorite actors.
|
|
|
|
Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Oct 6, 2018 12:47:22 GMT -5
We bought the Dresden TV series and it's probably about time to watch it again. I reread the books not too long ago, too.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daniel on Oct 7, 2018 8:24:12 GMT -5
I loved Brisco County Junior. My husband bought the DVD series for us a couple of years ago. Bruce Campbell is one of my favorite actors. Yeah, gotta love Bruce. Wouldn't it be cool to see a show with both him and Nathan Fillion? Oh, the hijinks! Another one-season-wonder we had to own is Jack of All Trades. It's classic campy Bruce Campbell and very silly, but it's a lot of fun. |
|
|
|
Post by kateelizabeth on Oct 7, 2018 12:42:48 GMT -5
We enjoyed Jack of All Trades, too. I also love Nathan Fillion. You're right--that would be terrific, the two of them together!
|
|
|
|
Post by Becca Mills on Oct 7, 2018 15:27:15 GMT -5
I did watch the Dresden TV series, and thought it was okay, but I can see why it didn't stick. The main problem, IMO, was the actor they choose for Harry. He captured several key elements of the character -- the good-guy-ness, the beaten-down-by-circumstance-ness. But Harry has to also seem legit scary/dangerous to those who don't know him. The predicament he's in as the series begins doesn't make sense if he just exudes obvious niceness/harmlessness, like that actor did. I was fine with the other changes they made.
|
|
|
|
Post by Daniel on Oct 8, 2018 11:32:42 GMT -5
I did watch the Dresden TV series, and thought it was okay, but I can see why it didn't stick. The main problem, IMO, was the actor they choose for Harry. He captured several key elements of the character -- the good-guy-ness, the beaten-down-by-circumstance-ness. But Harry has to also seem legit scary/dangerous to those who don't know him. The predicament he's in as the series begins doesn't make sense if he just exudes obvious niceness/harmlessness, like that actor did. I can see that criticism. Paul Blackthorne was only scary when he was pissed off, which didn't happen very often. Although his character was much nicer than the Harry in the books, I rather liked that. In the books, Harry is kind of a dick, which is often what gets him in trouble. I think my favorite casting from that show was Bob, however. I thought Terrence Mann was more hilarious than the Bob in the books. In general, I don't expect that much from the TV interpretations of books. I tend to judge them on their own merits, since the stories are often reinterpreted as well as the characters. The Legend of the Seeker took a lot of liberties with The Sword of Truth series as well, but I liked it for what it was: fantasy adventure. In that show, my favorite cast member was Bruce Spence as Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander. In fact, here's a bit of Vaetra Chronicles trivia for you: Bruce Spence was who I "cast" as wizard Ebnik Vlastorus.
|
|
