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Post by quinning on Sept 1, 2016 18:48:53 GMT -5
So, if you've seen me around, you know I am working on my first novel (that I would even consider ever letting see the light of day). It's getting to the point that I probably need to start thinking about getting the thing edited, but I also know from shopping around that editing can be costly. More so, when you're not even sure you write well enough to publish!
I've seen here and there suggestions to barter for editing help.
How is that done? What do you barter? Has anyone had success with this approach?
Thanks for any feedback...
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Post by Becca Mills on Sept 2, 2016 0:36:43 GMT -5
I've seen suggestions for bartering as well. I've always wondered how it works, since editing is so pricey. One would have to have something of equal value to trade, and the editor would have to need whatever service one had to offer. It seems the editor would probably also have to be an author, so that someone with great graphic design skills could trade, say, two or three free book covers for copy-editing a manuscript. But most editors are just editors, not authors. Most of them wouldn't need anything I could provide, that's for sure. If you have great website-building skills, you could upgrade their site in exchange for editing. Dunno. It might be the kind of suggestion that gets tossed around a little too freely. I'm wondering if most people who barter probably don't end up with professional editing, but a read-through by another author who may not have pro-level editing skills.
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Post by quinning on Sept 2, 2016 7:06:35 GMT -5
I've seen suggestions for bartering as well. I've always wondered how it works, since editing is so pricey. One would have to have something of equal value to trade, and the editor would have to need whatever service one had to offer. It seems the editor would probably also have to be an author, so that someone with great graphic design skills could trade, say, two or three free book covers for copy-editing a manuscript. But most editors are just editors, not authors. Most of them wouldn't need anything I could provide, that's for sure. If you have great website-building skills, you could upgrade their site in exchange for editing. Dunno. It might be the kind of suggestion that gets tossed around a little too freely. I'm wondering if most people who barter probably don't end up with professional editing, but a read-through by another author who may not have pro-level editing skills. That's exactly what I was thinking! Okay, so at least I know I'm not missing some key piece of a puzzle here. If anyone has successfully bartered for editing services I'd love to hear how it worked out. |
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Post by ameliasmith on Sept 2, 2016 15:07:41 GMT -5
Have you done a round or two of beta reading swaps? I had good luck swapping manuscripts for critique with other newish authors in my subgenre for a while, and sometimes you can do editing that way, or at least get it down to the point where it only needs what indies tend to call a proofread.
If you've already done that, then I am fresh out of barter ideas.
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Post by Daniel on Sept 3, 2016 9:52:57 GMT -5
I think editing is a tough subject for all of us, and there's a lot of confusion about it because there are three layers of editing.
1. Substantive editing is when someone looks at your story from a high level, evaluating it's strength from a structure perspective and market perspective. This is really spendy editing and rarely implemented by self-published writers. Most of us simply cross our fingers and hope we have a good sense of what "story" means for our genre.
2. Line editing or copy editing is when someone looks at your prose at the paragraph and sentence level. These editors help you improve the overall quality of your writing from a technical perspective. They also help identify plot/character inconsistencies, POV problems, and questionable word choices. This kind of editing can be extremely expensive as well. Many of us have beta readers who are also writers and can help with some of this.
3. Proofreading is when someone looks for typographic and grammatical errors in your book. Since grammatical rules vary, proofreaders usually follow a particular style guide for consistency. This is usually the least expensive form of editing, and some of us have been successful at finding a proofreader who does an adequate job. Others do it themselves or have a spouse/friend do the final proof pass.
Proofreading is what most SP writers think of when they want "editing." They aren't looking for feedback on the story so much as polishing what they have into publishable condition. Finding a good editor at any level is tough. The only guide you have for qualifications is to find out what others have said about them, keeping in mind that the editor will of course share only the positive reviews, and those reviewers probably aren't themselves qualified to evaluate the quality of the work that was done for them.
What I do is rely on myself and my beta readers for substantive and line editing. I'm fortunate to have multiple writer friends who are willing to read my books and give me detailed feedback. For proofing, my wife goes over a formatted print copy (which makes certain problems stand out), and I do a final pass myself reading the entire book out loud (which makes other problems stand out).
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Post by quinning on Sept 3, 2016 10:00:29 GMT -5
These are excellent suggestions! Elsewhere it seems that everyone has super expensive editors on call and the expectation is that you should be prepared to spend several thousand dollars on editing and covers. I'll be honest - that is enough to keep me out of the game. I have no desire to be that deep in the hole out of the gate.
Finding beta readers probably has its own kinds of hassles, but sounds far more doable than shelling out thousands for someone who may or may not be worth the cost. I think that's the direction I'll go.
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Post by ameliasmith on Sept 3, 2016 13:34:27 GMT -5
A bonus to doing critique swaps with other newish authors in your genre is that you can learn from their mistakes as well as your own, and also you could wind up cross-promoting each other some.
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Post by scdaffron on Sept 3, 2016 14:02:15 GMT -5
Like others, I've used beta readers and my husband does an alpha read on everything I write. (What a lucky guy--he gets to see all of my shitty first drafts!) On my most recent book, I won a couple of critiques of the beginning, which will help. Then I had someone new offer to beta read it, so we'll see how that goes. Because I've had mixed results with volunteer beta readers, I also have paid for beta reads. One thing I always pay for is proofreading. Because I was an editor for years, I know that if you get out of the editing game, your editing skills decline. The less you do it, the worse you get. So for me, hiring someone who edits regularly is worth the money. With that said, I am not using one of those high-priced editors. To some degree, I get what I pay for, but it's still better than letting the books go out with no copyediting at all. I wish I could stand to read my books out loud like Daniel does because it would catch a lot of errors. Unfortunately, I just hate doing it far, far too much  |
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Post by Daniel on Sept 3, 2016 17:00:05 GMT -5
I have hired an editor who did something between line editing and proofreading, but I'd say I only accepted about half of the MS Word tracked changes she put in. Some of the changes would have introduced errors. She found a few things I'd missed, but the overall improvement in quality wasn't worth the cost. I'll try someone else if I outsource editing again.
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Post by Rinelle Grey on Sept 3, 2016 21:08:18 GMT -5
Editing doesn't have to cost thousands! I pay 3-400 for two rounds of editing on my full length novels. Check the yellow pages on kboards, and get some samples. There are a lot of good editors out there for a lot less!
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Post by quinning on Sept 4, 2016 12:20:23 GMT -5
Editing doesn't have to cost thousands! I pay 3-400 for two rounds of editing on my full length novels. Check the yellow pages on kboards, and get some samples. There are a lot of good editors out there for a lot less! Good to know! |
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Post by mlhearing on Sept 18, 2016 11:43:14 GMT -5
So, if you've seen me around, you know I am working on my first novel (that I would even consider ever letting see the light of day). It's getting to the point that I probably need to start thinking about getting the thing edited, but I also know from shopping around that editing can be costly. More so, when you're not even sure you write well enough to publish! I've seen here and there suggestions to barter for editing help. How is that done? What do you barter? Has anyone had success with this approach? Thanks for any feedback... I'd be willing to trade copy editing for . . . oh . . . say, a case or two of Ayinger Celebrator (the best bottom-brewed double bock you ll ever have). Seriously, though, I'd be interested in some kind of barter deal--for, maybe, a few blog posts or some kind of promotional help or whatever . . . I could also do the copy editing fairly cheap (if you wanted to pay outright) 'cause it's just a side gig for me now. |
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Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Sept 18, 2016 17:19:29 GMT -5
I'll vouch for Michael's editing. We did a super secret trade awhile back and he edited one of my books for me and he did a great job. I'll be sending him the 7k short I'm doing for an anthology here in a few weeks...well, if I get it done enough ahead of the deadline that he has time for it.
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Post by Becca Mills on Sept 19, 2016 22:51:58 GMT -5
Ooo, glad to know you're doing editing, Michael!  quinning, I think your desire not to start out deep in the red is very sensible. I know some folks out there would disagree with me thoroughly on this one, but I generally think writers should feel certain they have a marketable product before they sink big bucks into it. |
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Post by quinning on Sept 20, 2016 10:53:34 GMT -5
So, if you've seen me around, you know I am working on my first novel (that I would even consider ever letting see the light of day). It's getting to the point that I probably need to start thinking about getting the thing edited, but I also know from shopping around that editing can be costly. More so, when you're not even sure you write well enough to publish! I've seen here and there suggestions to barter for editing help. How is that done? What do you barter? Has anyone had success with this approach? Thanks for any feedback... I'd be willing to trade copy editing for . . . oh . . . say, a case or two of Ayinger Celebrator (the best bottom-brewed double bock you ll ever have). Seriously, though, I'd be interested in some kind of barter deal--for, maybe, a few blog posts or some kind of promotional help or whatever . . . I could also do the copy editing fairly cheap (if you wanted to pay outright) 'cause it's just a side gig for me now. Okay. This is amazing. First, the beer is sold around here and my husband loves trying new beer, so thanks for the recommendation! Second, thanks for the offer of editing. I am on track to finish this draft by the end of the month - can I contact you then to see if we can work something out? Would love to hear your thoughts - or should I get a Beta read first? Not sure on the actual order of things... |
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Post by mlhearing on Sept 20, 2016 12:26:21 GMT -5
I'll vouch for Michael's editing. We did a super secret trade awhile back and he edited one of my books for me and he did a great job. I'll be sending him the 7k short I'm doing for an anthology here in a few weeks...well, if I get it done enough ahead of the deadline that he has time for it. Thanks for the kind words. |
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Post by mlhearing on Sept 20, 2016 12:28:49 GMT -5
I'd be willing to trade copy editing for . . . oh . . . say, a case or two of Ayinger Celebrator (the best bottom-brewed double bock you ll ever have). Seriously, though, I'd be interested in some kind of barter deal--for, maybe, a few blog posts or some kind of promotional help or whatever . . . I could also do the copy editing fairly cheap (if you wanted to pay outright) 'cause it's just a side gig for me now. Okay. This is amazing. First, the beer is sold around here and my husband loves trying new beer, so thanks for the recommendation! Second, thanks for the offer of editing. I am on track to finish this draft by the end of the month - can I contact you then to see if we can work something out? Would love to hear your thoughts - or should I get a Beta read first? Not sure on the actual order of things... Yep, contact me when you're ready, and we'll take it from there. I would think you'd want the beta read first, but you'd better consult the more experienced (and more successful) folks here on that one. Michael |
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Post by Suzy on Sept 20, 2016 13:11:38 GMT -5
Beta first, then editing. But what do I know?
Michael, would you have time to edit my Christmas novella? Mid-end of October? 20K words or so.
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Post by mlhearing on Sept 20, 2016 16:17:30 GMT -5
Beta first, then editing. But what do I know? Michael, would you have time to edit my Christmas novella? Mid-end of October? 20K words or so. Yes, I have time for and am interested in editing your Christmas novella. Just message me, and we can hammer out the details. |
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Post by Suzy on Sept 20, 2016 16:21:28 GMT -5
Okay, Michael, thanks. I'll email you to morrow.
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