E-Prime, Illeism & Dialects

[Deleted]

Have you ever tried writing in E-Prime or had a character that uses it?

www.nobeliefs.com/eprime.htm

It seems like it could be interesting. Tricky but interesting.
I knew a woman who spoke in E-Prime and she was very interesting to talk to.


What about characters that use illeism, referring to themselves in the third person? I've met folks who do this in the past whether because they have some philosophical reason or just know it irritates some people.



Do you often use dialects for characters or stick to the general language?
About the only nod I see to regional dialects most of the time is for those in the Southern U.S. since it gets pretty distinctive and colorful enough that it stands out more if you don't write it properly. Texan and Cajun seems to show up the most but the variety is astounding.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_the_English_language


Then there are accents... I've seen a variety of opinions on writing out accents. I know a guy that spells out a character's drawl ('Ah' instead of 'I' and such) and while that seems a little too far there are some serious pronunciation variations in some areas. In this part of Texas it's not uncommon for someone to refer to a window as a winder. Just the replacement of that last syllable. It's so pronounced it seems like it really should be written that way though it's incorrect and at times confusing. (Seriously, there was an amusing bit of chaos once when my husband was driving his grandfather around looking for Waller road. He was unfamiliar with the area and missed the turn because he was looking for Wallow road.)

Being a military brat, I noticed some big differences as we traveled. The most obvious is, of course, carbonated beverages. Soda, pop, sodapop, coke...
Seriously, around here Coke is like Kleenex. It's the generic association. You ask for a coke, they ask you what kind. Do that up north and you get disappointed with an actual Coca-cola.

There are a number of words like that and which one you choose could mark your characters as being from certain areas.
www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/dialect/maps.html

I saw the British Library has collected a bunch of regional words but the link to that is elusive. There are some articles with a selection of words but that can't be the whole of it! www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8612671/Regional-phrases-preserved-in-new-wordbank-so-you-can-tell-a-bobowler-from-a-bishybarnabee.html


Then there's the Urban Dictionary... great website but a little dangerous, too. Be careful wandering this one... you may learn things you really didn't want to know.
www.urbandictionary.com/

[Becca Mills]

Huh. I hadn't heard of E-Prime. It looks like an interesting way to give a character a strong quirk. I mean, only a certain kind of person would take up this kind of cause!

I think writing out accents phonetically is usually a bad idea. Pragmatically, it can really slow readers down, or even confuse them. It also tends to marginalize people with particular accents. After all, the "standard" American accent is ... an accent. My accent is close to the standard, and I don't pronounce English words the way they're spelled. For instance, I pronounce the word "letter" "ledder," but characters who speak like me never get phonetic dialogue reflecting that sort of pronunciation. Why does my (mis)pronunciation of "letter" get to be invisible, whereas someone else's pronunciation of "I" gets called out? It doesn't seem kind or fair.

I think you can do a lot to indicate a character's region speech by changing up syntax and cadence, and like aimless says, via vocabulary. Or by briefly mentioning they way they speak ("He sounded sort of like Frank Ely, the short-order cook down at Pop's. Guess I'd just met my second Texan."). For vocabulary, there's the Dictionary of American Regional English: www.daredictionary.com/ It's a super-cool resource.

[Deleted]

Yikes!!!
That site looks like it has everything I'd be looking for the the subscription cost is absurd! Way out of my price range.

[Daniel]

Most of the time, I stick to general usage, but for my Western, I experimented with dialects. My main character is well educated (graduate of the Harvard College of Wizardry) and from the east, so his speech patterns are somewhat formal. He interacts with Westerners who tend to use Western speech patterns and selected terms from the Old West (the story is set in an alternate 1890's U.S.). For example, a prostitute is often called a "soiled dove" or simply "dove." My delvan miners use a watered-down form of pirate speech with mining references in place of sailing references.

It was fun to write. I have no idea if it will be fun to read.

[Becca Mills]

Jul 5, 2015 12:59:23 GMT -5 @aimless said:

Yikes!!!
That site looks like it has everything I'd be looking for the the subscription cost is absurd! Way out of my price range.

Oh, yeah, it is. People generally access it through a library that subscribes to it.

[Becca Mills]

Jul 5, 2015 16:42:07 GMT -5 Daniel said:

Most of the time, I stick to general usage, but for my Western, I experimented with dialects. My main character is well educated (graduate of the Harvard College of Wizardry) and from the east, so his speech patterns are somewhat formal. He interacts with Westerners who tend to use Western speech patterns and selected terms from the Old West (the story is set in an alternate 1890's U.S.). For example, a prostitute is often called a "soiled dove" or simply "dove." My delvan miners use a watered-down form of pirate speech with mining references in place of sailing references.

It was fun to write. I have no idea if it will be fun to read.

Sounds like a blast!

[whdean]

I've heard people advocate e-prime (there's another name for it too, but I can't be bothered looking it up) as good practice for fiction writing because it has two immediate effects: (1) it gets you to vary your sentences and (2) it forces you to use action verbs--both of which are sorta true.

[whdean]

Jul 5, 2015 9:45:00 GMT -5 @aimless said:

Have you ever tried writing in E-Prime or had a character that uses it?


Do you often use dialects for characters or stick to the general language?
About the only nod I see to regional dialects most of the time is for those in the Southern U.S. since it gets pretty distinctive and colorful enough that it stands out more if you don't write it properly. Texan and Cajun seems to show up the most but the variety is astounding.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_the_English_language

Wow, my people made the list: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Maritime_English

[vrabinec]

Jul 5, 2015 19:23:06 GMT -5 whdean said:

Jul 5, 2015 9:45:00 GMT -5 @aimless said:

Have you ever tried writing in E-Prime or had a character that uses it?


Do you often use dialects for characters or stick to the general language?
About the only nod I see to regional dialects most of the time is for those in the Southern U.S. since it gets pretty distinctive and colorful enough that it stands out more if you don't write it properly. Texan and Cajun seems to show up the most but the variety is astounding.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_the_English_language

Wow, my people made the list: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Maritime_English

The hosers?

[whdean]

Jul 6, 2015 9:32:09 GMT -5 vrabinec said:

Jul 5, 2015 19:23:06 GMT -5 whdean said:

Wow, my people made the list: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Maritime_English

The hosers?

No, not the “hoser dialect.” As so often happens, a very popular (in Canada) TV comedy led to the widely held belief that all Canadians sound like these two guys (one of whom is a young Rick Moranis):



But this dialectic exists only in Northern Ontario and eastern Manitoba. Nor is it exclusive to Canada. The movie Fargo showed the world that Minnesotans sound a lot like stereotypical Canadians:



Here’s a politician and a political pundit from the east coast of Canada speaking “softer” forms of what the Wiki calls “Maritime English.”





Some of the locals would be difficult for outsiders to understand.

Anyway, I have a minor fascination with dialects. They seem to operate by unusual laws and in unusual ways.

[vrabinec]

Ontario? Every time my buddies and I have gone fishing in Canada, we couldn't find anyone who'd speak anything but French to us. We almost gave up on the whole country.

[lou]

I'll raise your Maritime a downeaster.



and a Gullah



I find it a little sad that TV has erased a lot of these differences in dialect.

[ameliasmith]

Darn, no one seems to have a video of a SE Massachusetts accent, which is slightly different from a Boston accent. You don't hear it much any more.

[whdean]

Jul 6, 2015 12:33:19 GMT -5 vrabinec said:

Ontario? Every time my buddies and I have gone fishing in Canada, we couldn't find anyone who'd speak anything but French to us. We almost gave up on the whole country.

You must've been in Quebec, which is French-speaking. There are only small pockets of French-speakers in Ontario, all in the north eastern part of the province that borders on Quebec.

[vrabinec]

Jul 8, 2015 10:08:48 GMT -5 whdean said:

Jul 6, 2015 12:33:19 GMT -5 vrabinec said:

Ontario? Every time my buddies and I have gone fishing in Canada, we couldn't find anyone who'd speak anything but French to us. We almost gave up on the whole country.

You must've been in Quebec, which is French-speaking. There are only small pockets of French-speakers in Ontario, all in the north eastern part of the province that borders on Quebec.

Yeah, that's where we usually stop on our way up to Lac Monet or someplace like that. I always try to refresh my French lessons for the basics before we head up there.