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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 17, 2015 15:38:16 GMT -5
How would you punctuate a line of dialogue when the POV characters starts hearing the conversation in the middle and thus only catches the end of a sentence? I've got this right now:
Is that wrong? Sorry, I can't find an answer to this on the web.
ETA: I found another spot where I do the same thing.
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Post by Daniel on Feb 17, 2015 16:31:23 GMT -5
I'd do what you did. Your approach appears to be acceptable to Grammar Girl as well … Grammar Girl: Ellipses(see "Ellipses at the beginning and end of quotations" about half-way down the article.) |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 17, 2015 17:08:32 GMT -5
Thanks, Daniel! GG is talking about quotations, though, not dialogue. Does that make a difference?
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Post by whdean on Feb 17, 2015 17:18:44 GMT -5
Blasted! My response got lost in the ether.
Anyway, short answer: Yes, I think that works, but I don't have my Chicago to check. There's a difference between an ellipsis character and three points/periods. The latter is usually used with speech that trails off, etc.
ETA: Yeah, the three points is used in dialogue, as opposed to the ellipses, which is used with quotations. But examples from novels will differ because not every publisher uses different symbols.
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Post by Daniel on Feb 17, 2015 19:45:26 GMT -5
Thanks, Daniel! GG is talking about quotations, though, not dialogue. Does that make a difference? Well, her example was this: That looks a lot like dialog to me.  |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 17, 2015 23:50:15 GMT -5
Yeah, it does look like dialogue, Daniel, but I think it's being quoted, rather than just given. That's why she talks about it as a quotation and shows what part of the original is being left out. I'm not sure whether or not that matters. Quotation is a familiar animal to me; dialogue, not so much.
WH, my question wasn't about the character to use but whether to use an ellipsis/suspension points there at all. I had a proofreader go over Nolander, and she wanted lines like this to begin in midstream without anything:
But that seems confusing to me.
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Post by mlhearing on Feb 18, 2015 7:31:14 GMT -5
If the hearing was a gradual thing, just creeping into the listener's awareness, then, yes, ellipses. But if the hearing came into being abruptly, then a dash.
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 18, 2015 9:57:02 GMT -5
If the hearing was a gradual thing, just creeping into the listener's awareness, then, yes, ellipses. But if the hearing came into being abruptly, then a dash. Ah, yes, a dash. Good point. Hmm ... I think these two were more gradual: she hears as the door swings open and as she enters the foyer. |
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Post by Miss Terri Novelle on Feb 18, 2015 13:27:55 GMT -5
With my reader hat on, I would expect the ellipsis or three periods or the dash. Any of those would slide right by because I would understand immediately what you were trying to accomplish. Your proofreader's suggestion would make me hit the brakes and say whahaa?
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Post by whdean on Feb 18, 2015 13:37:30 GMT -5
Yeah, it does look like dialogue, Daniel, but I think it's being quoted, rather than just given. That's why she talks about it as a quotation and shows what part of the original is being left out. I'm not sure whether or not that matters. Quotation is a familiar animal to me; dialogue, not so much. WH, my question wasn't about the character to use but whether to use an ellipsis/suspension points there at all. I had a proofreader go over Nolander, and she wanted lines like this to begin in midstream without anything: But that seems confusing to me. The proofreader's suggestion makes no sense. Even if the character quoted the part he'd overheard, you wouldn't write, "All I heard of the conversation was 'Has to go,'" he said. You'd write: "All I heard of the conversations was 'has to go,'" he said. [Or, indirectly, "was that someone had to go," he said.] ML's dash suggestion is okay, but that's normally used for clipped speech--i.e., one person interrupts another. Not that I'd be against it. I'm just thinking of the global use of symbols, and how it's handy to use them to cue the reader to different things. ETA: I was going to mention the distinction between quoting someone and dialogue to Marvello, too, but I wasn't sure whether he was joking or not. Anyway, yes, the point of the ellipsis before a proper name is to signal that part of the sentence was elided. It's an ethical obligation when quoting someone else, which doesn't apply when you're making up what people say--i.e., as in fiction. |
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Post by Daniel on Feb 18, 2015 14:01:15 GMT -5
I was going to mention the distinction between quoting someone and dialogue to Marvello, too, but I wasn't sure whether he was joking or not. I wasn't joking. I was just repeatedly misinterpreting GG's example. |
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Post by whdean on Feb 18, 2015 14:40:02 GMT -5
I was going to mention the distinction between quoting someone and dialogue to Marvello, too, but I wasn't sure whether he was joking or not. I wasn't joking. I was just repeatedly misinterpreting GG's example. You realize that I still can't tell by your response whether you're joking or not.  |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 18, 2015 15:38:47 GMT -5
I was going to mention the distinction between quoting someone and dialogue to Marvello, too, but I wasn't sure whether he was joking or not. I wasn't joking. I was just repeatedly misinterpreting GG's example. LOL, Daniel.  |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 18, 2015 15:45:09 GMT -5
Okay, guys, thanks! I'm going to leave it the way I had it. I thought it was odd advice, and now I feel vindicated!  |
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Post by whdean on Feb 20, 2015 11:17:07 GMT -5
Okay, guys, thanks! I'm going to leave it the way I had it. I thought it was odd advice, and now I feel vindicated! So I checked the Chicago Manual of Style and The Little, Brown Handbook (LBH). Neither speaks to your specific example. Nonetheless, Chicago (13.57) recommends either ellipses for “missing or illegible words” or two em-dashes (see also 6.97). LBH’s recommendation (25b, pp. 440-41) is similar: either a single dash for “sudden shifts in tone, new or unfinished thoughts, and hesitation in dialogue” or an ellipsis for omitted words. I note that LBH’s recommendation aligns more with ML’s recommendation, Chicago’s with mine. And, of course, publishers are going to do this in different ways. Either way, no one does it the way your proofreader recommends. ETA: I guess I should’ve illustrated the possibilities: “…has to go.” “—has to go.” “—— has to go.”* *Chicago leaves a space after the dashes when a whole word (or more) is elided. I like this solution. |
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Post by Becca Mills on Feb 20, 2015 12:45:11 GMT -5
Thank you for looking it up, WH! I think I'll go with the "ellipsis for omitted words" rule.
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Post by whdean on Feb 20, 2015 12:51:54 GMT -5
Thank you for looking it up, WH! I think I'll go with the "ellipsis for omitted words" rule. I just came back to add the three points/suspension points variation: ". . . has to go." |
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